I was just looking at the Facebook page created for former members of my old secondary school (called high school these days) and saw a comment from a woman looking for old class photos that might have her brother (who, sadly, is now dying of cancer) in them. The family moved to Australia in 1963, yet people who responded still remembered him. I hadn't even started primary school in 1963, but her comment made me wonder if she ever thought how life might have been for her and her family had they never emigrated all that time ago.
It also made me wonder how my life would've turned out had my family ever decided to emigrate. To think that she moved to the other side of the world nearly 60 years ago, yet still thinks back to her schooldays and the friends she knew is pretty surprising to my mind. (It wouldn't be in ordinary circumstances perhaps, where someone still lives in the country of their birth and is still in occasional touch with their childhood friends, but it seems surprising when seen in the context of having moved away 58 years earlier and had all that time to adjust to a new environment and make new pals.)
So what I'm wondering is, fellow Crivvies, did your parents ever consider emigrating and then decide against it, and do you ever find yourself regretting their decision? (Or are you glad they didn't?) Or how about even just flitting to another house in a different neighbourhood? Do you wish you'd stayed where you were, or are you pretty philosophical about it and don't really care one way or the other? Also, do you ever wonder about friends who moved away decades ago, who you've never heard from since? Y'know, whether they're still alive or not, and whether they fulfilled all their dreams and aspirations? Feel free to express yourself in our hungry comments section.
27 comments:
My mum and dad were looking to move to Halifax, Nova Scotia (Canada) either just before I was born or just afterwards but decided against it. I can't recall 100% the reason for not going but I think the reason was that my dad got a better job here than the one in offer in Canada. I haven’t given much thought to that move as I was so young but after going on holiday to Australia (Melbourne) a few years ago to visit family members that moved there I would have loved to have immigrated to Oz it’s a stunning place with a great lifestyle (assuming I had a similar job to what I have now) . They have a great life in Australia and certainly don't regret the move,they miss the usual daft things most Scots do like square sausage, plain bread, the football, 4 seasons in one day and family of course but they love it there and I don't blame them.
My dad was also offered a job in Brighton when I was about 6 years old and we visited there for a few weeks to check the place out and look for a house but didn’t go as my gran (my mums mum) took ill and my dad said some of the locals were rather rude to them. I’ve been to Brighton a few times recently on holiday and love the place (and the locals) so wouldn’t have minded a move there a either. But overall I am more than happy living in West central Scotland.
I remember when my family moved to where I live now (although we moved in that time as well and then back again) and wished we had stayed in our old house. A few years later I visited my old house and it looked pretty “small” . Saying that I have been looking to move towards the Glasgow area again but unlikely I will be able to do that now with the cost of houses there.
Sorry to hear your old school pal is so ill.
He's not actually my pal, McS, don't even know him, but yes, it's a shame. (His sister joined my old school's Facebook site, to try and track down any surviving class photos of him.)
One of my pals, before I knew him, went to my first primary school, and then he and his family emigrated to Canada. Don't know why, but they came back again not too long after. I met him at my second primary school, though he was there before me.
Talking of Canada, I had a 'wee fling' with a visiting Canadian lassie for a very short while a good many years ago, but I don't think I'll ever go there. She was surprised when I showed her a street in my town called White Horse Walk, as she was from a place called White Horse (if I recall correctly) in the Yukon.
I've always felt a sort of affinity with Australia (and to a lesser extent, Canada) as there's quite a few street names in my town (I've got the receipt) named after places in Australia and Canada. When I was a boy, I was with my mum and brother on a train one day, and a man asked if I was from Australia. I was wearing my school blazer at the time, and it had a Canberra badge on the breast pocket, as Canberra was the name of the school.
If you ever get the chance to visit Australia you should take it Kid it really is a great place and of course it has a lot of Brits and their decedents there so has that familiar yet very Australian feel to it. Aren’t a lot of streets in East Kilbride named after countries and overseas cities? I thought that was because the Overseas Development office was there? Someone told me if the street was for example, named after a Canadian city or state etc you could tell where in EK you were. I read somewhere that a lot (possibly most) people that emigrate come home to stay at some point. I remember a guy in my Primary came to Scotland from Canada (his Dad was Scottish) but they went back after about 2 years as felt life was better there).
Never been on a plane in my life, McS, and I don't think I ever will be. Quite a few people I once knew are in Australia now - wonder if any of them remember me? What you say about the Overseas Development office might well be so; in fact, I expect it is. Years ago I read in a newspaper about a family who went to Australia and loved it, but they came back to Britain a few years later as they missed their old lifestyle. Australia was just too different for them. I don't think I could ever live anywhere else than where I am, 'cos I'm just too used to this place. Maybe if I were younger it would be different, but then again maybe not.
I must admit in relation to living in the area I live now that I wouldn’t move to far away from here if I was still staying in this region. Not that I have an affinity with the place but my neighbours are really nice, it has a good shopping centre and its only 20mins to Glasgow etc (but it’s also full of idiots obsessed with Rangers FC) but the main reason I stay here is because it is where my (last) memories are of my mum, dad and brother so when I walk down a street and in that “mood” I like to remember my wee mum going to that shop or my dad getting his paper in the corner newsagent or playing football with my brother in the local park etc. Just yesterday we were talking to a lady in a local shop and she saidd “I remember you mum…” and we had a nice conversation about her, which was really lovely. The strange thing is I would consider a move further away from this area rather than say just 20-30 miles from here - not sure why that would be other than maybe it would be a clean break rather than a just “out of reach" move. I do think when we get older we may move to a seaside type place (Largs etc) to end our twilight years.
Good comment, MsC, but I was on my way out when it came in. I'll reply to it more fully when I get back. Cheers.
Yes, it's nice to live in a place which inspire memories of people and times now gone, isn't it? I like Largs, but I don't think I could live there, because I'd feel like I was on holiday and that it'd soon be time to go home. I've often wondered if people who moved to live in what was once their holiday destination feel disappointed living there 'full time', as opposed to just being there for a welcome break. And where do then go on holiday - the place they left?
Yeah it’s nice to have memories linked to a town etc. On that subject I seem to have "lost" my link to the town I grew up in (from around 3 to about 8 years old). I was in the town only last month and it felt very "alien" to me. The places we went as kids were still (mostly) there ,as was my old house and although the shops had changed names they were still recognisable but I didn’t get the memory thing . We visited the town about 4 miles away where we moved to from there when I was about 8 years old and I got the old memory vibe right away. We visited where “ Johnny’s” used to be and I got a flashback to when I bought sweets, caps for my rockets, Airfix soldiers and where I saw (but sadly didn’t buy) Amazing Spider-Man issue 77 -always regretted that . Maybe 50 years away from a place is the cut-off date for getting those memories!
I know 2 ex-work colleagues that retired about 5 years ago to Largs (from EK) with their partners and I see them from time to time. Last time I spoke to one of them he said he loved it there and wished he had moved sooner. Largs isn't really a holiday place for folk in our area (its only 30 miles away) it more a day trip but I know what you mean. I used to like visiting London and about 30 years ago I worked there for 2 ½ years - it’s a great city to visit but to live there, for me at least it was a nightmare just crowds everywhere, underground was a pain to get anywhere with everyone desperate to get on any train despite there being one every 10 minuteS ETC.
I find that I still get the 'memory thing' (at least to some degree) with all the places (or parts of them) I've lived, despite the changes, but it's sad when there's a radical change that changes the look and feel of a place. Last time I was in Rutherglen, the original premises for Johnny's (it later moved along a bit) still had the original board up. It had been painted over, but you could still see the outline of the name 'Johnny's' underneath the paint. I suppose your pals have transport and can travel, hence they probably don't feel confined by it, but I think I'd feel trapped there (like Number 6) as I don't have a car and can't drive.
I quite liked London when I went there every week back in the '80s, but you'd have to be rich to actually enjoy living there full time.
I should add that I've lived in the same town for all my remembered life (don't recall my time in Glasgow), so my situation is different from yours as you've lived in more than one. It might well be that which makes the difference when it comes to 'feeling at home' somewhere.
An interesting subject. I moved from London to NYC in 1974. Over the years I tried reconnecting with old school friends but obviously once the bond of school was over so was the relationship.
I had more success in contacting friends from Art School and for a while even worked together with a couple in marketing their product in the US.
In 2019, fifty years after graduating I looked at the college Facebook page and found one of my classmates calling out for contact. He now lived in Sweden and I reconnected him with the few people I was still in contact with. One of which was someone he dated in college and not knowing her married name he would never have reconnected.
What is interesting is that men don't keep relationships active, whereas women tend to stay in contact over the years even if only exchanging Christmas Cards (remember them?)
What was really surprising was that people that played sports together on the same team who you think would have bonded with the old team spirit didn't stay in contact.
After 50 years it was fun to send photos from college days to folks with kids older than they were then.
I've found, from my own experience, that one side of a male friendship will try and stay in touch with the other, T47, but the other side soon loses interest. (For an interesting example of this, see my post called Superman, 'Bob Billens', And Me...) I'm sure women are often the same. I remember a pal of mine (now dead) talking about eventually moving abroad, and I asked him wouldn't he miss his friends. His response was "I'll make new friends", which surprised me, as the idea that friends were easily replaceable was not something I'd considered. It was almost as if, as long as he made the same number of friends over there as he had here, then he wouldn't be missing anything or anyone. He never got to emigrate so never had to make any new pals.
What's a Christmas Card?
My father had two younger brothers and one of them (named Tommy) emigrated to Australia with his wife and two kids around 1960. In 1979 he came back to visit relatives in the UK including us. In 1984 his wife Marie also came back to visit relatives and she brought my sister a cuddly toy koala bear - my sister was 15 at the time but Marie had thought she was several years younger. After a few years in Australia they moved to South Africa but returned to Australia permanently. In the early '70s my parents did consider emigrating to Australia but nothing came of it (I didn't even know about it till many years later when my mother told me). My father's other brother, Robert, lived in Newark, Nottinghamshire, and my parents considered moving there too but again nothing came of it. I've previously mentioned that we moved to the north of Scotland, near Inverness, when I was about 15 months old but we only stayed for about 10 months so obviously I don't remember it but I often think that living in the Highlands sounds idyllic and part of me would love to move back there.
It's interesting that you feel drawn to a place you have no memory of, CJ, but I wonder if you eventually did move back whether you'd be disappointed or ecstatic (or at least content). I feel comfortable when visiting Great George Street in Glasgow, where I spent the first year and a half of my life, even though I don't consciously recall living there. Surely Wales isn't too different in parts to the Highlands? I sometimes think that the 'other side of the fence' appeals to many people - it's probably human nature - but once the other side becomes 'this side' (figuratively speaking), a lot of them want to move back over to the side they were on.
Paul may think Australia is a great place but I think you'd need to be comfortable with really hot weather to live there. The summers are ferociously hot and thanks to climate change Australia is getting even hotter and drier - some towns in the outback are already being abandoned because of a lack of water. And don't mention the horrible creepy-crawlies they have in Australia - apparently there's a spider that jumps at you!
Paul also mentioned a kid from Canada in his primary school - when my father was a child one of his friends had been born in the USA and he got conscripted into the US army rather than the British army like all his friends. But he'd lived in Scotland most of his life and didn't even remember the USA.
I imagine that one would acclimatise to the hot weather, CJ, after a bit of time there. I don't really fancy it myself though. Shame about your dad's pal. I wouldn't want to be in the army of a country that I didn't even remember living in. In fact, I wouldn't want to be in any army - period!
By the way, "The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there" is famous but do you know:
"The past is never dead, it's not even past" by author William Faulkner. I'd say it's a very appropriate quote for a nostalgia blog like Crivens!
I knew the first quote, but not the second one, CJ. I can see what Faulkner is trying to say, but it needs work.
Kid, I'm amused that you think a 70 year-old quote needs work :D
Hey, I'll be 70 before too long, CJ, and I need work. I once even thought of an improvement for a line in a poem by Longfellow. There's just no stopping me.
An interesting topic for discussion, Kid. People have an almost visceral fear of separation from family, memories, friends when contemplating moving far away. That’s why most people do not move more than 20 miles from the place of their birth. Most people’s ancestors (like mine) lived in the same place going back centuries. But those fears all turn out to be nonsense if you take the plunge.
I spent the first 40 years of my life in the Portsmouth/Southampton area, and the last 20-some years living west of Chicago. I’ve been fortunate that my job has enabled me to work in many countries. I’ve found that the more places you live in, work in and spend time in, and gain familiarity with, they all become “local” to you, and any apprehension about visiting new places, or moving yet again, disappears. Furthermore, living away from your hometown, you gain a balanced perspective looking back at the place you grew up in, and realizing that your memories of the place are what counts, not the physical geography of the streets and houses themselves.
But don’t underestimate the importance of key friendships from teenage school-days, because that shared knowledge of teenage trails and tribulations, in-jokes, local slang, etc., is something that cannot be replaced with new adult friendships in a foreign clime, so staying in touch with my core friends from Grammar School has been very important for me. And of course very easy in the days of Zoom and FaceTime.
Don't you miss being able to walk the streets of your youth though, B? In reality I mean, not just in memory. Having said that, it can be painful when their have been severe changes that have altered how a place used to be. I only just found out a few days back that the naval base Vernon is now a shopping complex, and that the base closed around 1986 - a mere year since I was last in Portsmouth. However, there's a lot of truth in what you say, and had I left my home town for good many years ago, I'd probably be saying the same thing.
Yes, from time to time I have a yearning to walk the streets of Pompey, and have done so many times on return trips over the past years. But it’s generally a bittersweet experience because the places and faces that I knew are gone. It’s been a far better experience to meet up with old friends who similarly moved away and then wander around the places we all knew together. You’re right that HMS Vernon is now a big shopping complex Gunwharf Quays. Quite impressive actually, with the Spinnaker Tower a main attraction. But if you remember the main Southsea shopping centre in Palmerston Rd, both Debenhams and John Lewis (Knight & Lee) have both shut down, and the remaining shops are mostly charity shops and coffee bars, not unlike things in your neck of the woods, I’m sure.
I remember Palmerston Road quite well, B, it was there I first discovered Debenhams in 1981. (Or I could have been in the store in 1978, but 1981 is the year I associate with it. Still got Maurice Horn's Encyclopaedia Of Comics and a couple or so LPs I got there.) I'd never heard of Debenham's before - if there was one in Glasgow at that time, I didn't know about it.
As for bittersweet, that's how I feel when I visit my old neighbourhoods and see the changes, though there's generally enough that's the same to bring some warm memories. If you read my post 'Let Me Dream', you'll probably be able to relate to it.
Ah, Maurice Horn’s Encyclopedia of Comics…..it is sitting on the shelf next to me. A mighty tome. I have no recollection of when or where I bought it, though. Probably in Palmerston Rd. Your copy probably weighed more than your luggage upon your return to Glasgow!
Only cost me a fiver, B, so it was a great bargain. I think I posted a lot of stuff back home just before I returned to save me carrying it, so Horn's book may have been one such item. If so, I must've packed it well, 'cos it shows no damage or dunted corners in the slightest.
In one of my above responses I typed 'their' instead of 'there'. I'm so ashamed.
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