Having collected and read (several times) all the Marvel Age comics from 1961-1974, I "bagged" them and placed them in cartons when I had my big move to a new apartment. In 1978 I did the same for the new comics I had since collected. I also paused writing my book on the Marvel Age.
25 years later, having just moved into a house, I decided to unpack and enjoy the comics again. I saw that the 30 to 40-year-old comic bags had deteriorated greatly. They were wrinkled, separated, torn and some, with the name of "Robert Bell" on them were, well, melted.
I knew my comics were worth something, especially the ones from the early 1960s, but I had no idea just how much they were really worth. I went into a local comic shop for the first time since my move. I asked which bags were best and the dealer steered me to the Overstreet guide, which suggested mylar bags. So I asked the dealer to order mylar bags for me - 5,000 of them! He was astonished and it showed on his face. Most people ordered no more than 50! A very important point: I'd been out of touch with comics for a quarter of a century.
And then it began:
Dealer: What do you need 5,000 bags for?
Me: 5,000 comics. I may need more.
Dealer (obviously not believing me): I haven't seen you here before. What comics do you have?
Me: Marvel comics.
Dealer: Which ones?
Me: The ones from the 1960s and 1970s.
Dealer: Which Ones?
Me: All of them.
Dealer: No, really, what do you have?
Me: All of them.
Dealer: Which ones, really?
Me: Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Avengers, X-Men, Daredevil and so on.
Dealer: Which ones?
Me: All of them.
Dealer: I know people who have all the early Fantastic Fours, or Spider-Mans or Avengers, but no one has them all.
Me: Can I just order the bags and backing boards?
Dealer: The bags and boards are in.
Me: I'll pick them up tomorrow.
Dealer: No, I have to deliver them to you.
Me: No, I'll pick them up.
Dealer: No, have to deliver them or I can't give them to you.
Me: Huh?
Dealer: I have to deliver them.
Me: Why? Okay, deliver them.
So the next day he rings my bell and is at my door. That wasn't enough, he wouldn't just give me the bags.
Me: What's up, what's this all about?
Dealer: I need to see your comics.
Me: Need to? You mean you want to.
Dealer: Yeah, I know people who have all the early Fantastic Fours, or Spider-Mans or Avengers, you say you have them all. I need to see them.
Me: Why didn't you just ask me?
I took him over to my 1960s closet and opened both doors (see picture above). He took one look at all those comics, took two steps backwards and fell to the floor. He almost fainted! Fantastic Four #1, Amazing Fantasy #15, Avengers #1 and 4, Daredevil #1, Tales of Suspense #39, etc. He'd seen these separately, but never together.
It took him quite a while to get up.
Now here is why I began to dislike dealers:
Dealer: I can sell all those comics. On Consignment.
(Consignment means leaving my comics, in a store, with a stranger. I'd receive a percentage of what he sells them for, but would have to trust him. No way. If I wanted to sell them I wouldn't need him.)
Me: I've no interest in selling these comics. In fact, I just bought bags and boards for them.
Dealer: Oh, you've got to sell them. Let me take them to my store.
Me: I'm not selling them. Just give the bags and boards.
Dealer: Okay, but when you sell them, let me know! (His pleading went on and on.)
Me: You'll be the first person I'll call. (This wasn't true, but I wanted him out of the house. I've never had another dealer over since then.)
Wife: My husband said that you shouldn't come back here anymore.
Me (puzzled): Why?
Wife: He said you'll know.
Me: I don't. Why?
I didn't receive an answer. Sometime later, at a local sporting event, I ran into him at a concession stand.
Me: What happened? I was a steady customer.
Dealer: You said you'd sell me your comics.
Me: I never said that.
Dealer: Who'd you sell your comics to?
Me: I never said I was selling my comics. I never sold them.
Dealer (talking as if they were his comics): Well, you told me I could put them up on consignment and I've been waiting. I even made space.
Me: Good luck.
His store closed later that year.
22 comments:
What a pushy b@st@rd - I'd have kicked his @rse out the door. In fact, when he insisted on delivering the bags, I'd have told him to stuff 'em up his jacksie and got them from elsewhere. Shop closed? Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
Kid, you are right. This was the instance that I realized my comics were worth something. If I had NOT left a deposit for the bags I would have told him to go to hell.
Madness even to allow the dealer to visit your home to view the comics. As an aside, make sure you have photographed and logged all your comics. And of course make sure your house insurance specifically covers the comics and your insurer is aware of this. Lastly a few decent extra locks on the doors would not go amiss.
This has been a public service announcement!
Ken.
At least you learned from it, BP, as witnessed by the fact that you haven't had any comics dealers in your house since.
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BP's too nice a guy sometimes, K. I think it was probably his reluctance to offend someone (as well as not wanting to lose his deposit) that allowed the pushy dealer to take advantage of his genial nature.
Wow what a pushy numpty. I had a similar experience with a Glasgow store when I asked the owner to give me an idea of what a set of around 150 1960s and some (then) key 1970s comics were worth with a view to sell. I left them with him and he gave me a receipt saying he would give me a quote once he went through them all. A few days later I was in the area with friends having a drink and passed his shop and there in the window for sale were around 20 of my books. The next day I went in to see him and he had them all on sale. Long story short I got them back (all but one which he sold) I can't recall his reason for doing what he did but he offered me a silly price about £20 when they were worth around £200 . I got the price he sold my comic for despite him wanting to take half the cost.
Glad you got them back, plus the dosh for the sold comic, McS. But you've got to give us a clue as to what store it was or I won't be able to sleep tonight. Woodlands Road or Parnie street? Comics dealers tend to offer ridiculous amounts for collections, less than the cost of the comics box (long ones) that they're stored in. And the weak 'justifications' as to why are simply ridiculous most of the time.
Another thing that occurs to me, BP, is that given the fact that the guy's shop closed, he was very likely in financial difficulty and was trying to get you to sell your comics so that he could meet his debts from the sale of them. Had you agreed to him selling them, he'd have given you a pittance and kept most of it for himself, trying to justify it with the usual tired old excuses. Y'know, like "I had to make space for them", "I pay rent on this shop so I'm entitled to a bigger slice to cover that", etc. And he most likely wouldn't have told you the actual price they sold for. "I only got $100 for FF #1 and I'm giving you $80, so what's your beef?" - the usual crock of sh*t. Whereas we all know he'd have sold that one comic for thousands of dollars. Crook.
Letting him, at that time, was a learning experience. But there were a few reasos I did it JUST ONCE!
1. Biggest is that he had my deposit. It was a lot of money then for 5,000 bags and boards.
2. It also meant I didn’t have to drive to him and do all the lifting. He did help.
3. Hard to believe because of what came later, he appeared to be a nice guy, I didn’t feel threatened.
4. Finally, and honestly, I did NOT have a good idea of what my comics were worth at the time. While “re-bagging” them I went through the comics price guide and was thoroughly surprised. I have a great story
McSCOTTY, this is why I would NEVER let a dealer put my books on "consignment." Dealers lie all the time. See my next post about that. And Kid you are also right, they go out lf there way to give you next to nothing. See my next blog. Probably tomorrow or Tuesday. I am writing it now!
It was Woodlands Road Kid!
The thing is with your crook of a dealer, BP, in refusing to let you have the bags unless he delivered them, he was holding them to ransom, so you'd have been quite within your rights to demand your money back under those circumstances. However, having said that, he may not have given it to you (readily), and there would have been all sorts of hassle that you didn't need or want, so I can quite understand why you took the route you did. As you say, it was a learning experience. Looking forward to the next parts, as I'm sure are other Crivs.
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Doesn't surprise me, McS. If it was NC's shop, I once bought TV21 #1 (I think) from him, and asked him to reserve #s 2 & 3 for me. When I called in to pay for them on the day I said I'd be back, he'd already sold them. I could be mixing up the numbers, it may have been later issues I bought, and it was #1 he was meant to be reserving for me, but whichever way it was, he didn't reserve something he said he would. Can't remember if I'd left a deposit or not, but if I did, I obviously got it back. Still, disappointing after travelling specially into the City to collect them, full of eager anticipation. As it happens, I've now got two issues of #1 - so I win! (Hee hee.)
BP, I meant to ask - were any of the comics damaged in any way by the 'melting' mylar bags, or did they all escape unscathed?
There are comic shops and comic shops. I loved Covent Garden's Comic Showcase in the '80s, and was so disappointed when it went to only selling all new material. Similarly there are some good traders on the net, whose prices and grading can be trusted. But I remember the first time I bought comics through mail order years ago. It was such a rotten experience.....and from someone well known in UK fandom.
Right now with some comics being the price of a top car, I wonder how a comic really be so valuable? And the prices I see on original art beggars belief! I can't imagine people having so much spare change.......But if you are a collector and want to sell, either you have to do it yourself, which takes a lot of time and effort, or you do it through a dealer, and know that they will only offer you 30% (or less!) of what it is worth, at best. Its a real shame, but unfortunately that's business. I have worked in retail, and know of some establishment's that, with say a gross margin of 80% ( that's sales revenue less the cost of the goods) still can't turn a profit. It all gets eaten up by rent and establishment costs ( you know electricity, maintenance etc), wages, IT and connectivity, marketing and admin ( eg book-keeping), let alone taking account of the cash flow risk of holding large amounts of slow moving stock ( that's inventory to you Barry).
Spirit of '64
Kid:
You wrote: “so you'd have been quite within your rights to demand your money back under those circumstances.” Of course, but I would have to take him to court and even if you win, after all time, there is no way to collect. I did the most expediate thing to do. However, if he got a court notice he would have forked over the bags. I wanted a quick resolution and I am not second guessing what I did now. Of course, today I would have had the boards on a credit card and would have simply cancelled the charge. That’s what I learned form this. If the supplier doesn’t have it and has to order, charge it.
Second question: Those “Robert Bell” bags (he had his name printed on them) damaged about 25-30 comics. The melted plastic attached to and destroyed some covers. It was random with no pattern. I did replace those comics then, at very little cost, often by trading off duplicates of other comics and dealing with dealers. In fact, that is how I got to my next post coming tomorrow or so.
I've had good experiences with comic dealers on ebay and also bad experiences, S64. Maybe I'm viewing things through rose-coloured spectacles, but on the whole, I think the good experiences outweigh the bad. (Though I'm not going to do a tally in case I'm way off-beam.) In BP's case, I'd say the comics dealer didn't expect the comics to be slow-moving, otherwise he wouldn't have been so desperate to get his hands on them. Generally-speaking, I'd say that if someone can't make a profit in whatever business they're in, then they're in the wrong business. I've bought a few comics from someone 'well-known in UK fandom' too (dunno if it's the same person) who describes most of his comics as being a 'high grade copy', when, in fact, they're nothing of the kind. They're not exactly falling to bits, but certainly not 'high grade'. Can you give us all a clue who you're referring to without actually naming him?
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BP, I also wrote: 'However, having said that, he may not have given it to you (readily), and there would have been all sorts of hassle that you didn't need or want so I can quite understand why you took the route you did. As you say, it was a learning experience.' So I know why you did what you did, and I wasn't suggesting you did the wrong thing, just that there were other options, even if not quite as expedient as the one you chose. For my own part, I just wouldn't have liked being, essentially, blackmailed by the guy into letting him see my collection - the b@st@rd. Looking forward to your next post.
Kid, this was really before eBay became so popular an before everyone had a computer and access to the internet. Ebay has been very good, but these were dealers of the 1990s.
In my world, at the beginning of the 1990s comic prices really took off and a great many comic shop opened. And Baseball card stores too. But by the end of the 1990s and the beginning of the next millennium there seemed to crash and a great many stores closed. His was one of them and, I bet, he was desperate at the end. His was called Cosmic Comics.
Cosmic Comics, eh? And I bet the shop ended with a whimper, not a bang.
NCs shop was a strange old place, but I miss it- he was fond of telling everyone that he had the biggest stock of back issues north of Birmingham!
I used to pop in sometimes when I worked nearby and he'd usually be listening to some political programme on the radio and arguing out loud with what the radio was saying!
I still have, I think, one of his back issue lottery tickets somewhere- he'd put handwritten slips into random back issues that would allow you a certain value of free back issues- I found two of them, one was for a small amount but the other was £20! This was around 1995, so it was a decent amount- I think I used it to buy the entire run of the Marvel Universe Handbook Deluxe Editions.
I did not buy the reprint titles, I had the originals. It’s hard to believe that at one time 25 cents or so was a lot of money to me, but it was. So, when the X-Men went to reprints with issue #67 I stopped buying them, but original stories resumed with issue 94 and started collecting again. So I was missing 67-93. And Sgt. Fury produced a lot of reprints from issue 100-120.
When I stopped collecting in 1978, I did not just suddenly stop. I collected a comic title until the story line ended. So I quit after several months.
25 years later I did deal with dealers. First about 25 or so comics were ruined by my bagging (random, not necessarily expensive ones) and I wanted to replace them.
I also wanted to read the Electra stories in Daredevil (this was before the Omnibus). So I dealt with dealers for most of those issues. (I am still missing a few of the reprinted X-Men, but got all of the Furys for like a dollar each).
Going to dealers I was able to pick up full runs of “The Thing” and a few other titles for very little money.
The BIG thing is that I got Fantastic Four #200-416 for no money at all, I just traded some extras that I had.
I think I've got one of those tickets too, DS, but I can't remember how much it was for. There might be a pic of it on the blog somewhere, but again, I can't remember. Must be getting old.
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As I said earlier, the quality of reproduction in some '70s reprint titles was awful, BP, so you didn't miss much. In the 2nd Sub-Mariner King-Size Special, they've used copies of one story taken from a UK issue of Terrific, without restoring the US spelling. By the time they'd copied the pages for colouring, some of the linework had dropped out, meaning that the US colour reprint was worse than the b&w UK reprint. However, nowadays, most of the reprinted material in Epic Collections and Omnibus editions is of extremely good quality as far as detail goes.
I forgot about those tickets NC put in some of his comics. I had a few as well but never cashed them in. I also remember him listening to political shows on the radio and talking away to himself,as I recall he stood for either the UK or Scottish parliament shortly before he passed away - but never got in.
I always wondered why he never rotated the stock in his window to avoid it getting faded by the sunlight, McS. There was nothing in his window that I'd have considered buying, simply because of the aged condition of most of it - even if it was something I wanted. I'd simply track it down elsewhere. Still, it's a shame to see the shop still lying empty. At least, it was vacant the last time I walked past several weeks back.
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