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| Copyright DC COMICS |
Jack Kirby had a tendency to use collages in the pages of his comics every now and then, usually made from various photographs clipped from magazines and newspapers. I remember seeing Thunderbird 2 in one of them and no doubt other copyrighted material was also utilised in this manner. The question is, therefore, do you think it was right that Jack used other people's photographic material with no credit or financial remuneration going their way? Sure, he may've been 'interpreting' those images in a creative way, but doesn't it still make him a bit of a 'rip-off' artist to some degree? Feel free to comment, even if only to pour scorn on the very notion.
That's an interesting question that hadn't occurred to me before. I typed "copyright and collage" into Google and this was the most detailed answer I could find - https://fineartdrawinglca.blogspot.com/2021/05/collage-and-copyright-law.html . Unfortunately i's so detailed that most of it went over my head! I think it's basically saying that if a small part of a pre-existing artwork is used by a different artist in a new and creative way then it's OK.
ReplyDeleteLegally, perhaps, AM, but ethically, morally? And I'm not sure Jack would've approved of others 'cannibalising' HIS work to make something 'new'. He could probably have drawn a page quicker than he could've produced a collage, but there's something about Jack plundering the work of others (without credit or payment) while considering himself the hardest-done-to in those areas which doesn't sit easy with me.
ReplyDeleteYes, you're right about the ethical side, Kid. Even if it was just a matter of adding a footnote containing a "free plug" to the original creator in situations where the law allows reuse without payment, it would be better than leaving readers with the impression that it was all his own work.
ReplyDeleteI suppose those who know how collages are created would be aware it wasn't all his own work and a footnote might be distracting and shatter the 'spell', AM, but a mention by Stan in the Bullpen Bulletin pages saying how grateful Jack was to the originators of the images he used might've been a good thing. Even better would be him regarding himself as less of a victim to deprivation of credit and dosh when he was doing practically the same thing himself. Collages composed of other people's work, story ideas 'inspired' by SF books and TV shows, films, etc., he wasn't shy about lifting from others with no mention of his 'muses'. Or am I being too cynical?
ReplyDeleteHere's an article on the legality of collage:
ReplyDeletehttps://hamptonsarthub.com/2018/05/16/features-creativity-the-law-collage-and-fair-use-under-the-copyright-laws/
And you're being much too cynical.
Wasn't talking about legality, RJ - Marvel wouldn't have published anything that wasn't lawful. However, for Jack (who nursed a perception that he'd been ripped-off) to use the copyrighted work of others without recognition or remuneration, well - it smacks of double-standards and strikes me as being not entirely ethical. He clearly didn't see it like that, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it wasn't the case.
ReplyDeleteI'm inclined to agree with Kid about the ethics of Kirby using the work of others in his pages. For someone who frequently complained that his work had been often been appropriated by others, I find it a bit questionable that Jack never examined the ethics of appropriating the creations of Carl Burgos and Bill Everett on the early Fantastic Four books - especially when he has long claimed that Stan had nothing to do with the creation of the FF. And the Kirby Kultists also point to Challengers of the Unknown as evidence that Kirby solely created the FF ... but wouldn't that just be cannibalising the work of the Joe Simon without credit, as well?
ReplyDeleteIt's a Gordian knot, all right, but this long afterwards, we'll never know what actually happened. And comics has never been the most ethical of industries ...
I've always thought that the alleged similarities between the Challs and the FF were a bit thin. There were four members in each group, sure, but the FF knew each other before their rocket flight, the Challs were strangers on a plane. (H'mm, there's a good movie title there, but it needs work.) And one group consisted of three guys and a gal, the other was all guys. Interestingly, in his one-page essays in his DC Fourth World mags (talking about his career), Jack never mentions Joe Simon once. Always a pleasure to see you here, Al, thanks for commenting.
ReplyDeleteOh, and of course, one group had superpowers and the other didn't, so I'd say there were more differences than similarities.
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