tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post8393257659087292416..comments2024-03-28T18:40:59.101+00:00Comments on CRIVENS! COMICS & STUFF!: THE 'LOST' KIRBY 'SPIDER-MAN' PAGES...Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-22767298939991529182020-03-06T01:49:07.315+00:002020-03-06T01:49:07.315+00:00I'd say the two most prominent names there in ...I'd say the two most prominent names there in regard to Spidey's success are Lee & Ditko, though your own preferred sequence may differ.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-76304307166040289522020-03-06T00:53:07.987+00:002020-03-06T00:53:07.987+00:00No wonder Spider-Man is a great character. He has ...No wonder Spider-Man is a great character. He has some of the greatest names in comics in his background: Simon, Beck, Oleck, Kirby, Lee, Ditko.John G. Piercenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-7638279937207284762014-05-10T20:28:16.188+01:002014-05-10T20:28:16.188+01:00What strikes me about that Night Fighter drawing i...What strikes me about that Night Fighter drawing is how 'Ditko-ish' it is. Change the costume to Spider-Man and it displays a fluidity of movement that Jack could never quite capture whenever he drew Spidey.<br /><br />Comment originally posted on:<br />30 October 2013 12:17Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-61696920888072973062013-10-30T11:46:47.516+00:002013-10-30T11:46:47.516+00:00Re: "...The pages he showed to
Lee may well h...Re: "...The pages he showed to<br />Lee may well have been redrawings of the Spiderman/Fly pages.."<br /><br />The Night Fighter drawing you showed is a reworking of a drawing of Kirby's earlier character Fighting American, which gives Kirby a record of reworking past drawings when trying to sell something new.<br /><br />David SimpsonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-65790661958781629002013-10-30T02:48:51.684+00:002013-10-30T02:48:51.684+00:00Marko, I'd disagree with you that I present th...Marko, I'd disagree with you that I present the article as if the information is 'newly discovered', but I do write it from the perspective of not many people being aware of it. (And Joe Simon's book was first published in 1990, not '93.) I've thought, since 1975, that Stan's story of Spidey being 'tried out' in AF #15 because it was the last issue, so what harm could it do?, didn't gel with the cover blurb or final caption, but I didn't get around to writing about it 'til 2002, in an issue of Comics International.<br /><br />I'd also say that there were huge differences between Stan Lee and Bob Kane. Kane never really created anything else of merit other than Batman, and it was his father's business acumen that secured Kane a 'sweet deal' with DC, not Kane Junior's. Also, I've never read any accounts of a fan having met Kane and coming away liking him - most say that he was completely 'up' himself. Reading interviews with him, he comes across as an unsophisticated, rather simple soul, who lucked out with Batman. It gives me no pleasure to say any of that because, hey - we're talking about Batman's originator, but that's the way he comes across.<br /><br />Stan Lee, on the other hand, is - on the whole - well-liked by just about everybody, even those who think he has exaggerated his input into the creation of the Marvel Universe. However, I think it's significant that neither Kirby nor Ditko achieved anything like the success they did in collaboration with Stan Lee, and when you look at the earliest interviews, Stan was always extremely lavish in his praise for both men's contributions to the comics they worked on. Stan was the editor and scripter, therefore the most obvious person to interview when Marvel began to take off. Ditko was a recluse even then, and Kirby just didn't seem to come across well to reporters - hardly Stan's fault.<br /><br />Having met Stan back in 1991, I have to say that he is a completely charismatic force of nature and deserves all the accolades and success which life has delivered to him. Jack and Steve deserved it too, of course - even if they didn't get it. However, I don't think that was Stan's fault 'though. The 'King' wouldn't even have been crowned if not for Stan Lee.<br /><br />Thanks for the interesting comments. Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-60295366638861936542013-10-30T01:56:01.670+00:002013-10-30T01:56:01.670+00:00Kid, you presented the majority of this article, a...Kid, you presented the majority of this article, as if it was newly discovered, but I had read much of what you wrote and saw the Kirby and CC Beck scans nearly 20 years ago, from Joe Simon's "The Comic Book Makers" book, published in 1993! I am just saying that much of this evidence has been available for decades, in print and online, but I appreciate that many people are not aware of it, so it needs to be out there.<br />I think Stan Lee is in many ways just another Bob Kane. Kane signed the contract with DC and his signature was on the splash page for years, so he fooled most of the kids who read Batman comics, that he was responsible for virtually all the creative input, until he was finally rumbled. But, when others started to air a different version of events in Marvel's birth, it seemed that a majority still preferred to believe the charismatic Stan Lee's account. Stan is the writer, a great orator, a man of words, a salesman and boy, he has sold one great version of how the Marvel Universe was born and his version is the Gospel. Kane was just an artist, a good businessman too, but he did not have the wordsmith skills to fight off someone like Bill Finger, a great writer, when he began to reveal his contribution to Batman's development. When it comes to a war of words, who is going to win? Anyway, in the end, the truth must be that Batman would not have existed without Bob Kane and there would have been no Spider-Man without Stan Lee. These are the pivotal players, sure there were other catalysts, other writers and artists. I believe Kane and Lee's egos really just saw themselves as the legitimate fathers of these creations. I cannot blame them or dislike them for feeling this way. Still think Bob Kane was a great guy and so is Stan!<br />(Marko)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-19332517077122103022013-10-30T01:07:06.428+00:002013-10-30T01:07:06.428+00:00My inclination (based on very little other than I ...My inclination (based on very little other than I like Ditko lol) has always been that it was Ditko that was mostly responsible for the creation of the Spider-man look we all know (the full face mask' the web under the arms, Aunt May etc) but with healthy input from Lee. I agree I think it was also planned that Amazing Fantasy 15 would NOT be the last issue of that book as in the original comic the final panel blurb (rarely reprinted )said continued in Amazing Fantasy 16 etc. For me at any rate the Spidey we know just doesn't look or feel like a Kirby character, although I know Jack (and Joe) created a character called Spiderman (as you note) and he may have done breakdowns on some of the AF pages (although its more likely if Kirby did breakdowns it was on Spider-man issue 1) as he did for some early Hulks and DD etc. But if he did do any breakdowns it looks to me like Jack simply left the character after a few pages to do something else kiv Marvel were creating a lot of new books with Kirby's input like FF, Thor, Hulk etc so he would have been really busy. On the cover I thought Kirby was asked to re draw Ditkos original cover (to me the figures look like Ditko) as Jack was considered the more commercial artist and it would sell better with his name/style - I would have loved to have seen CC Beck's work as I think he was a great artist (sadly forgotten by a lot of todays comic book fans) - Another great wee article - McScottyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-33401960086795440482013-10-30T00:48:44.729+00:002013-10-30T00:48:44.729+00:00On the subject of Stan's memory I always love ...On the subject of Stan's memory I always love his stock phrase in interviews: "I've told this story so many times it might even be true..."<br />:-)Simon B https://www.blogger.com/profile/07719757386457800087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-16215651129025120492013-10-29T23:50:42.655+00:002013-10-29T23:50:42.655+00:00I don't think that he so much gives conflictin...I don't think that he so much gives conflicting versions as expands on them, JP. I think the spider on the wall story is perhaps a fanciful embellishment (although Stan maybe thinks that he remembers it happening), but supposing it did, he could then have thought back to The Spider radio programme he's referred to before. One led to the other, if you know what I mean. My point being that both accounts are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but complementary.<br /><br />******<br /><br />Steve Ditko designed the costume, Baab, contrary to what Kirby once claimed, then subsequently retracted when it was pointed out to him that Ditko's unpublished cover (and the contents of AF #15) were drawn before his.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-15545816133129537242013-10-29T23:17:41.387+00:002013-10-29T23:17:41.387+00:00Good article.
Nice theory.
The teaser heading got...Good article.<br />Nice theory.<br /><br />The teaser heading got me excited but I was not disappointed.<br /><br />I wonder then, who designed the costume?<br />Could it have been someone else?<br />Did Jack Kirby draw the cover based on Steve Ditko's interior work or vice-versa.<br /><br /><br /><br />baabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07388667792167744260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-33210605880146231992013-10-29T21:35:15.734+00:002013-10-29T21:35:15.734+00:00Stan the man doesn't help matters by giving co...Stan the man doesn't help matters by giving conflicting versions of Spidey's origin over the years - first it was a nod to pulp hero The Spider, master of men ,then it was because he saw a fly climbing up the wall and thought what if a man could do this, but now this is even more intriguing...John Pittnoreply@blogger.com