tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post5169061685334234613..comments2024-03-28T18:40:59.101+00:00Comments on CRIVENS! COMICS & STUFF!: MOEBIUS AT MARVEL... A RUEFUL REFLECTION ON AN EPIC DISAPPOINTMENT AND DISASTER!Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-18619405321479282282022-12-10T01:32:00.724+00:002022-12-10T01:32:00.724+00:00It's hard to evaluate Stan's scripting her...It's hard to evaluate Stan's scripting here because of the awful lettering, BH, which impedes a smooth read. Can't say I agree with you about Moebius's lettering being average, it's just downright awful to my eyes and as a former signwriter and calligrapher (and artist as well), I think I'm a pretty fair judge. Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-16002038051631791912022-12-10T01:01:07.479+00:002022-12-10T01:01:07.479+00:00I've been interested in this one for solely be...I've been interested in this one for solely being a post-Silver Age Lee comic. He also did The Last Fantastic Four Story, which is instead him dabbling in pseudo-Brian Bendis nonsense, with short sentences and lots of "yeah" and so on-killing his Mark Twain styling. How's he here? Pseudo-Frank Miller?<br /><br />Moebius' lettering seems average to me. I'm a little less elaborate, and I do cartoon characters!Pete Halehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00725278773308567491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-32244911749392511602016-10-25T11:57:18.459+01:002016-10-25T11:57:18.459+01:00He was a good artist, KT, but his lettering (and h...He was a good artist, KT, but his lettering (and his views on lettering) strike me as somewhat odd for someone who worked in what is essentially a collaborative medium. I wonder if his Surfer would've been better had he used one of his other art styles?Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-46749993011022541382016-10-25T08:20:35.241+01:002016-10-25T08:20:35.241+01:00sorry I saw this so late (I'm new to viewing b...sorry I saw this so late (I'm new to viewing blogs, despite being a published comics artist 4 DC, Dark Horse, etc).<br /><br />Since the age of 17 I TRIED, and repeatedly FAILED, to create decent, legible, acceptable lettering . It's a talent, like dancing verus singing, like orchestrating music vs writing lyrics for songs.<br /><br />Moebius can GET FUCKED on this one. His 'lettering' is a DISTRACTION from the printed page, and smacks of of a 14 yr old 'being lazy but having a go', as per on too many FB pages, etc. Thus he had no right to say what he did RE lettering. It was like what Hitchcock was reputed to say about 'actors'. People whom can't DO something (especially something which is HARD TO DO) never get to bitch about stuff like lettering. And Moebius CAN'T letter. I've been LUCKY enough to have GRANDE letterers, whom ADD to the aesthetic of any comics reading experience, and what we see above as quoted from Moebius pisses me the hell off. BECAUSE I CANNOT DO THAT LETTERING he treated like crap, as per his statements [[ublished above].<br /><br />Also, he was no Kirby, he was no Buscema, he was no Byrne, in terms of the Silver Surfer work e 'provided'.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07037715157961797311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-9681951098272811992016-07-17T19:39:20.929+01:002016-07-17T19:39:20.929+01:00Great artist, but duff letterer. I'm surprised...Great artist, but duff letterer. I'm surprised he wasn't discerning enough to recognize it. Incidentally, I didn't mean slap him WITH a kipper, I meant slap him ON the kipper. ('Kipper' is a word for 'face' in my neck of the woods.) Tell you what, cover both angles and slap him on the kipper with a kipper. Sorted. Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-12810231766327761782016-07-17T16:52:42.576+01:002016-07-17T16:52:42.576+01:00A great post, sir, and one which I thoroughly agre...A great post, sir, and one which I thoroughly agree with (just for a change - LoL)! <br /><br />I'm a big fan of most of the work of Moebius, but his Surfer is VERY FAR from "one of the best", and I'm rather taken aback by the incredible hubris of the man! <br /><br />As to lettering, while I can relate a little to his ideas that lettering should ideally reflect the overall style of any given comic, I certainly wouldn't be averse to someone else doing that, especially if they were better at it than I (though Moebius's own lettering DOES stink up the pages of his Surfer book, and I too found them to be jarring when I originally read the book some years back). <br /><br />Sadly, I don't know Monsieur Giraud personally, but I WILL keep a kipper handy should I run into him in Dante's ring of Self-Important Pomposity (which, also sadly, I'm fairly likely headed myself - ahem!). Cheers!Lorenzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03009311296128549965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-86993865359704147422013-09-30T23:47:13.951+01:002013-09-30T23:47:13.951+01:00I will shortly no longer be publishing comments wi...I will shortly no longer be publishing comments without some kind of name attached. The anonymous function will remain open for the convenience of those without a Google account, but a name - even an assumed one - will be required in order for comments to see print.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-30745965290874626062013-09-30T23:37:28.888+01:002013-09-30T23:37:28.888+01:00I think it has to do with the old US/Europe lack o...I think it has to do with the old US/Europe lack of mutual understanding of each other's cultures. I have read many Tex Specials (in Italian). Many of them great. But it's always consistently Tex. It's unmistakeably him. On the other hand I also read the Tex Special drawn by Joe Kubert... now while enjoyable (I've read this and the Moebius Silver Surfer and enjoyed them both)... this ain't Tex. It's almost like seeing Batman dressed as a cowboy. It is Profoundly influenced by Kubert's US-centric vision of how cowboys/comics should be. I would not want for this character to be the norm. As long as it appears once that's fine and well. It is Kubert's take on the Tex character and has very little to do with the Europea version. And like I said it's more of a superhero than what Tex actually is. There has been/is/will be a language and/or cultural barrier.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-16283466358993240082012-02-06T09:13:28.486+00:002012-02-06T09:13:28.486+00:00And thanks once again for taking the time to comme...And thanks once again for taking the time to comment, Pierre, and sharing your insightful observations.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-61550486625299119162012-02-03T15:51:59.028+00:002012-02-03T15:51:59.028+00:00Hi !
Oh! and while writing my comment I was think...Hi !<br /><br />Oh! and while writing my comment I was thinking "I mean it's not as if it was an afterword or something he would have actually written."<br />Well, so much for my attempt at explaining; I completely agree with you then, and I add : Man what an ass !<br /><br />On the lettering side, here is an example of his work on Lt. Blueberry, the page dates back to the early 80's :<br />http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=651427&gsub=73632<br />The lettering here is closer to the quality he normaly offers in his work. I still like very much the round-shape style he uses, and think it fits. <br />The space/room between the lines is almost non-existent though, that does not help the reading I can't argue with that.<br />Comparing it to image2.png it looks like he made his line fatter there, and it doesn't fit the size of the wordballoons (as you rightly pointed out).<br />Then again with my theory, it could because of him anticipating that the page would be printed in the smaller US format, I don't know, if so it was a bad decision anyways.<br /><br />I know that mostly he draws on a very wide format. You can't see that on the link I gave you above, it's an exception, but most of the times one page of comic by Giraud is actually two pages on his drawing board, <br />http://www.bdartiste.com/dotclear2/public/expo_collectionneur/giraud2.jpg<br />Here (hope the link works...) you can see that, there's a page 5a and a 5b to compose p. 5.<br />Maybe he had to fit in some requirements to draw this Silver Surfer story, regarding the page size or smtg <br />(Oh God, this really starts looking like an obsession on my side doesn't it ? Always with the page size like it answers everything !)<br /><br />I had a ball writing these comments though, thanks for answering them and thanks again for the blog !!Pierre Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10012015716284858104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-57221702825613696222012-02-02T18:41:44.037+00:002012-02-02T18:41:44.037+00:00An extremely interesting comment 'though, Pier...An extremely interesting comment 'though, Pierre - and a most welcome one. His comments ere not on the back cover of the book and not a quote of something he said; they were in a detailed chapter after the story and were his written thoughts on the matter. I would imagine he spent a bit of time on it.<br /><br />He seems to think that the artist is more important than the comic itself, which, as Bob Kane found, isn't really true. Readers were always more interested in the character of Batman than in the creator of him.<br /><br />Perhaps the problem with the lettering is simply down to English not being Giraud's first language? Even then 'though, the balloons still take up far too much space in the panels. The pages sometimes look like illustrated letters rather than lettered illustrations. I've overstated it perhaps, but you know what I mean.<br /><br />Comics have to be pleasant on the eye and easy to read. (I don't mean simple, I mean legible.) In this case it was certainly a major fail - at least in the second part of that statement.<br /><br />Thanks for dropping by.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-11067723729387959962012-02-02T15:18:07.765+00:002012-02-02T15:18:07.765+00:00Hey ! Thanks for the post, it's very interesti...Hey ! Thanks for the post, it's very interesting. <br />I've read a lot of Giraud's work these last years, and on the scans you display the lettering is very similar to the lettering he offers on his french work. <br />And to be honest I was surprised by your post, because I remember Giraud's lettering as very round and pleasant to read, on Lt. Blueberry at least.<br />And then I enlarged the pictures, ouch... On image2.png, "what insane conceit possesses you?" : that's just really awful, and it's just an example, you're completely right. <br />But I do still like the way he makes those round-shaped letters though, it's not the style that I don't like, and honestly I understand what he says not wanting another lettering on a page he's drawn. French Comics is no industry you know, artists have a very different vision of their work. <br />But this is just really bad this time, no question. I do think there are reasons for that, I can only suspect them, but carelessness no, I don't think so. I don't know, it may have to do with the page-size on which he works, or the fact the french and US comics are not printed on the same format made him make some odd decisions; or he just had no time, french comic writers don't have the same deadline issues as people working for the big two in the US...<br /><br />As for the first citation you made "From a strictly academic standpoint...". I don't have a copy. This is on the back of the book, seriously ? To me that looks like a very odd editorial choice, it's really on the back ? That sounds very much out of context doesn't it ? I mean, who would say that out of nowhere ?! Yes we are arrogant here in France, but come on man! <br />Now, I'm sure he said it and that's no forgery, there's no reason. But, you know, like any comics artist that guy spends all his time at home mostly alone working his ass off; and then from time to time they invite him in New York and there he gets praised and praised and praised. And out of those meetings and conversations I'm sure you can extract many quotes in this fashion, you know this kind of situations, it's good for the ego and there's no contradiction. But i'm not sure this is the way Giraud would like to address his american readers, that's just a very odd quote choice...<br />Anyways, in any situation to make such assertions might not be the wisest, that's for sure, but to put that on a Back-Cover, that's obviously way too much...<br /><br />Wow, that's way too long a comment...<br /><br />Thanks for the blog man it's awesome !Pierre Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10012015716284858104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-72273186408417655752012-01-02T10:24:34.699+00:002012-01-02T10:24:34.699+00:00One thing I've noticed about Stan's script...One thing I've noticed about Stan's scripting over the years 'though, is that it's usually a smooth read, cliche or not. However, in this case, because of the lettering impeding the actual act of reading, it's an incredibly bumpy ride which detracts from the natural flow of the story.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-17767872023945838812012-01-02T06:35:38.444+00:002012-01-02T06:35:38.444+00:00I wouldn't have minded the lettering so much i...I wouldn't have minded the lettering so much if the story wasn't so bleeding DULL. I recall reading somewhere that Moebius had long had a hankering for doing an American comic the American way, and this was presumably it - might have been more interesting if he'd gone the whole hog, and had someone ink and colour as well as letter it.<br /><br />But as I said, by this time Stan hadn't scripted anything regular for years (Spidey newspaper strip notwithstanding) and in some ways it's a compendium of everything that made the Surfer great, while repeating it for the Nth time, turning it into one cliché after another. It's no wonder that when the Surfer got his own title back that they got him off Earth and into some new adventures elsewhere (though I have to admit, having finally read them in an Essentials volume a couple of years back, they didn't do much for me).B Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18016629838915185467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-23537905810670367962011-12-30T23:20:53.361+00:002011-12-30T23:20:53.361+00:00I take your point. It is irksome in places like wh...I take your point. It is irksome in places like where words are broken up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-91351855638351857522011-12-30T22:49:11.237+00:002011-12-30T22:49:11.237+00:00Believe it or not, I have no problem with artists ...Believe it or not, I have no problem with artists lettering their own work - if they can do it neatly and legibly. Dave Gibbons is a good letterer, as were Wally Wood and others.<br /><br />However, in Moebius's case in this instance, it looks anything but natural and is a serious impediment to enjoying the book.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-67240641233808843722011-12-30T22:32:48.894+00:002011-12-30T22:32:48.894+00:00Many European comics are lettered by their artists...Many European comics are lettered by their artists I think. It's OK and feels natural not pasted on. Not the American way perhaps but it's good to be distinctive.<br />FlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-82083643965129582302011-12-30T21:47:05.048+00:002011-12-30T21:47:05.048+00:00Possibly, but at least the story would have been e...Possibly, but at least the story would have been easier to read had the lettering been better. As it is, it's just so bloody sore on the eyes and disrupts the fluency of the narrative.<br /><br />Thanks for commenting.Kidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07224781868125924337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3740495193314269367.post-57197953582934788062011-12-30T21:20:36.686+00:002011-12-30T21:20:36.686+00:00Yes, Giraud lettered the comic badly. I am a comic...Yes, Giraud lettered the comic badly. I am a comic artist myself, and I never use my own lettering. But I don't think that a better lettering would improve much in this case. The problem I see is that Giraud adopted too much to an american style of drawing. The comic could have been a succes if he had drawn it like he normally drawed, such as in Blueberry or Major Fatal.fred.de.heijhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09007268886439140680noreply@blogger.com